« Video from the Rose Parade | Main | 24: To watch or not to watch? »

January 02, 2009

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d8341e80fc53ef010536ad0f23970c

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference A different kind of leadership:

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Gary Walter

Ryan, I've been having similar thoughts for the past year. Thinking through this...

Even thinking of growing my church leads me to this conclusion. Currently I pastor about 150 ppl. This is about the average most can carry - my number, being an introvert, is probably lower. For me to grow the church to 300, which is where the conf. would even consider giving me another staff member, well, I'm thinking what is my motivation for working so hard?

But, being a spiritual community that is missional, well, that changes everything. I'm just not sure how yet...

Billy

This quote makes me wonder what's wrong with being "successful?" or having people recognize a leader's name as being effective and therefore worth learning from.

While I don't condone the market-driven Christianity that pedals a product-Jesus, I also sense a hint of malicious sarcasm and unhelpful criticism among some "missional" authors.

Please help me, I'm trying to grasp the problem of trying to reorganize (CEO?) how the local church operates. And I don't want to fall into the trap of sacralizing failure with a theology of smallness out of impure motives of envy for those more successful in actually making disciples than myself.

Ryan Bell

Hey Billy! There's certainly nothing wrong with being successful. The question is, what is success for the church in our late-modern society? The difference I'm trying to articulate here is not growth vs. non-growth or fetishizing smallness or non-growth. It is the fact that for the church to be successful in its mission today will require different skills than before. The CEO model of pastoral leadership assumes a stable world of modernity where leaders know what needs to be done and get on about doing it. But the church is not in that world anymore.

The point this author is making isn't that churches shouldn't grow or shouldn't be successful at sharing Jesus with their world, but that churches that aren't doing well shouldn't be given up on. The point is that all the resources needed for God's life to emerge in a local church are present in those churches. The task of leadership isn't to go "out there" to the celebrity churches and figure out "how to do it," but to lead the congregation to being attentive to what God is doing right there, in their midst.

Billy

I guess it all seems theoretical and full of jargon without practical examples. The assumption, if I hear correctly, is that leaders can't know what needs to be done because "the world" is different than it used to be. Doesn't that sound like two broad generalizations that could be interpreted many different ways? Conservatives, Contemporary, and Emerging minded people could all use that statement and be in essence contradicting each other.

The underlying, unspoken sentiment that I "read" is that what some leaders think they know needs to be done is wrong. And given the progressive context and sources for the discussion, that leads me to assume that whatever traditional churches are doing like having seeker services or holding public evangelistic meetings in neutral halls, or doing door to door literature evangelism to generate personal Bible studies, is all out-dated and ineffective now. And coming from a conservative, traditional background in Adventist ministry of holding "crusades," it sounds like we are throwing out prophecy and Adventist distinctives in favor of the social gospel, and throwing a not-so-subtle glance of spiritual condescension toward IIW, AFacts, and the like. Don't get me wrong, I don't defend all that is done along those lines. Forgive me, because I may be drawing perhaps on several sources outside the original quote you gave and be responding to what I understand "missional" approaches to be advocating. "Missional" strategies, to me, seem to still be at least partially driven by the "market" or "host/audience" preferences and what works, so it doesn't seem to be very high ground to throw stones from.

Also, the assumption on the solution side of being attentive to what God is doing in our midst is classic cliche - no offense. Is that assuming that if a church isn't growing that they should not get "best practices" from growing churches but rather simply pray? Is that assuming that all dying churches need to be revitalized, and we should not let them die gracefully (if that is even possible)? This certainly undercuts a lot of the emphasis on church planting and the "statistics" that "prove" that new churches grow and reach new people with greater health and result.

I know that I am currently re-evaluating everything about what I have previously considered "church." And I find a lot of value in the emerging church literature surfacing in recent years that goes beyond "ancient-future" worship styles to substantive change in missional engagement and incarnation versus the attraction-extraction model of church we have now. BUT, I have serious doubts in the ability of myself to lead that kind of radical change with the churches I currently serve, and in their openness to re-evaluate on such a core level of basic presuppositions. This goes beyond cell/small group strategies, worship styles, sowing-reaping emphasis - to the very "hollow" core of modernism we have embraced, and frankly, it scares me that the very premise that I operate on as a professional minister operating services in a traditional program/building model of church, is so obsolete that to continue in it is futile.

OK, maybe a phone call would be better, you tell me? feedback and straight-talk is appreciated.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

QUOTE

  • Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction.... The chain reaction of evil - hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars - must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of annihilation.
    - Martin Luther King, Jr.
My Photo

Take Action

  • Help Obama End Torture

Statistics


  • View My Stats
  • Cost of the War in Iraq
    (JavaScript Error)
  • Locations of visitors to this page