Talking about ministry in a postmodern world

A few months ago Sarah Asaftei sent me some interview questions and asked if I would be willing to answer them for a monthly feature they do in re:frame news (click here for PDF of the recent issue). Sarah is the Assistant Director of the Centre for Secular and Postmodern Studies (CSPS) and re:frame is the ministry of CSPS to help Adventist Seventh-day Adventist church members understand and more effectively reach out to people in secular and postmodern cultures, such as we have in North America.

Answering the questions was a good experience because if gave me the space to sit down and think about what we've been doing in Hollywood. Here's an excerpt:

12) What would you recommend to others who want to effectively reach postmoderns who are just skipped by a lot of churches and outreach programs?
Listen broadly to the people in your church and in your community – don’t be afraid of what they will say. The church is good at talking. We like to talk about what we want to talk about. Even when we start to listen to others, we want to set the agenda of what will be talked about, so we might go to people with a survey about how our church can be more relevant.

So the church is still the focus of the conversation. What if the church wouldn’t rest until it could find a way to listen to people in the community without an agenda? What would it be like to be part of conversations in our neighborhoods that didn’t include what is on our agenda? Our role is to be like amateur anthropologists: learning, but not in that modernist, disconnected sort of way, as if that was ever really possibly. But rather by a genuine engagement.

[snip]

We typically come to our communities with all the answers. We should talk. Others should sit and listen to us. The church needs to stop talking and listen; to learn to be attentive to the movements of God’s Spirit. Discover that God is at work in your community in ways you never imagined. Your job, as a detective of God’s kingdom, is to discover what God is up to in your neighborhood. This could take 6 months – it might take 6 years. You will hear criticism that makes you mad. You’ll want to be defensive.

There also needs to be a commitment on the part of church members to love the community where they live and attend church. The community cannot just be the raw material for the growth of your church. People - least of all, postmodern people – don’t want to be used for your grand agenda of growing your church. It’s no wonder the community is hostile to the church. The church has been hostile to the community. Nobody wants a crusade done to them.

 You can read the whole thing here. I think it will give you a sense of our my philosophy of ministry. I hope it is encouraging. Drop me a comment below and let me know what you think. 

Comments

[Scott Arany]

I appreciated your comments about the distinction (or more importantly, the lack of) between our community at Hollywood and postmoderns. The constant language of "How do you [fill in the blank] postmoderns?" felt so us-vs-them. Having one world-view learning how to reach another world-view, while still holding up distinctions between the two seems to miss the point of incarnational living.

Anyways. That's something I could ramble and rant on about for a while! Good interview. It was fun getting glimpses of our church as others will see us through your words.

[Nathan]

Congrats on the interview. You talked through some pretty significant stuff. And after having had the opportunity to talk with you about it, I was very interested to read the interview.

I am glad there are avenues within the church for your voice to be heard and that what you and the Hollywood church are doing is attracting some interest.

Walk on.

[Mireya Peña]

Huh? I understood your answers more than I did the questions... I guess I understand the questions in terms of the wondering we all have in "doing" God's will versus how we are now asking, "How can we be God's presence and be an exact replica of Christ's character through these new bodies in which the Spirit dwells?"

I think that's how I'm experiencing life with God by being present in our church, neighborhood, city, with friends, family, and at work. By paying attention to what God is up to in people's lives. I always ask that question when I meet someone. I also ask, "What do I need to learn about God's character from this person?"

There is no more room for doing. There is only room for living. And as I learn to live and make mistakes in the process, I accept God's compassion and am better able to be compassionate with others, through the same pains I see others living through and through the healing I am experiencing. Listening, listening, listening. Yep, that's key.

Pain and suffering knows no labels and has no boundaries or parameters for how it affects people. I'm not sure what they are asking but appreciate how you articulate what it is we are "doing"...

It sounds just like you and I could almost "hear" you speaking. I have a feeling I'm referenced in question 10, since we are the same age. Glad to be part of this deep philosophical conversation I don't understand.